Eliminating Decision Fatigue with Erika Lyremark

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This week, Erika Lyremark joins me to talk about how we can eliminate decision fatigue. During our conversation, we cover how to make powerful decisions, the difference between a viewpoint and an opinion, why viewpoints make everything easier, and how to get more of what you want in life.

We also each share the scoop on what it was like working with our dads and why our level of commitment is one of the greatest indicators for future success.


Think you’re working in a tough marketplace? Try hustling your wares alongside cut-throat dancers and a roomful of customers who think they own you — in a neon bikini and six-inch stilettos for 9 years. That used to be Erika Lyremark!

In 2001, she quit the strip club world and went on to co-create a successful commercial real estate investment company, write Think Like A Stripper: Business Lessons To Up Your Confidence, Attract More Clients & Rule Your Market – endorsed by Shark Tanks’ Barbara Corcoran and #1 NY Times best-seller Dan Pink – and launch her business coaching consultancy in 2005.

Erika spends her leisure time…

Watching Gossip Girl,
Eating take-out with her hunky husband,
Admiring photos of Elo – her adopted orangutan who lives in Indonesia.

And texting the Bugatti headquarters with suggestions on what to call the next generation of sports coupes. The Lyremark, of course.

You can follow Erika on Instagram @dailywhip.

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Alyssa Patmos 0:04
This is Make It Mentionable. I’m Alyssa Patmos and this is the show about being human in a world that encourages us to be robots. I invite you to join me as we journey through the mess, the magic and the mania in between. Because what we can talk about, we can manage. This honest conversation extravaganza includes free flowing conversations and high doses of vulnerability to remind you that you aren’t alone. No topic is off limits, and episodes are designed to leave you smarter, aka more self aware than when you came. I am so glad you’re here.

Hello, hello, and welcome to another episode of Make It Mentionable. I’m your host Alyssa Patmos and today I am here with Erika Lyremark, who has so many things that we can talk about. I’m so excited that you’re joining me. Erika, can you go ahead and introduce yourself?

Erika Lyremark 1:09
Hi, everybody. I’m Erika Lyremark. And the long or the short story – you wanted the long the short story not the long story. The short story as I was a stripper for nine years out in Seattle, Washington during the 1990s I love that industry. After nine years I went to co create a really successful multimillion dollar commercial real estate investment company with my father. And I left my position as managing partner there 10 years ago to pursue my own business coaching, consultancy and now I specializing I specialize in helping women really become bold editorial and decisive in their brand and their marketing and their products and services and their sales process. And I also wrote a best selling book called Think Like a Stripper: Business Lessons to up Your Confidence, Attract More Clients and Rule Your Market. You can find me on my online home at dailywhip.com or an Instagram at daily whip or on TikTok @dailywhip

Alyssa Patmos 2:11
All the places! I love it. Have I told you the story how I when I was a transition moving about a year ago, I had your book, and just in a pile of stuff at my mom’s house and I had gone to Denver, but I needed to leave some stuff there. And so my mom calls me she’s like, I’m stealing. I’m stealing this book. And it was. So mom, my mom stole it and then it graded some of it for her business. She runs her own business as well and loved it. And so then I ended up having to order another copy because that was

Erika Lyremark 2:46
Awesome. I thought you’re gonna say you put in the recycling bin and I’d say that’s awesome as well. Recycling Bin needs good items in there as well.

Alyssa Patmos 2:56
No, so she stole it. And it Yes, it was fun moment. So I one of the things that I love about how you talk about things is this decisiveness. So the running speaking of my mother, the running joke, like my entire life, like my mom and I have been indecisive. Not everything just didn’t start in it in certain areas. But so over the years, I’ve had to learn to cultivate discernment, and decisiveness. And you’ve been a part of that. And so how, how is your journey with decisiveness? Men? Because you’re one of the most decisive women I know. And so like, Did it start out that way? What’s your journey with decision?

Erika Lyremark 3:43
That’s a great question. So I don’t know, I’m trying to think like when I started making, I think I started making like decisions about who I was going to be when I was standing at a bus stop. And I saw a guy with a mohawk riding by in his dirt, dirt bike, and I was like, I want that that is who I want to be. And I was very attracted. So this is probably let’s see, I was probably like in seventh grade. So I don’t know, I’m a graduate in 89. So whatever that is 1983 That’s when I decided that’s when I started the journey to be myself. And, and actually, even before that, in the third grade, I was very attracted to Vogue magazine. So it’s always been a mixture of like, high design and streetstyle. That’s always been my vibe. And but you know, when you’re in third grade, and you’re living off of a 50 cent a week allowance, you don’t have a lot of money to buy clothes. So I started getting into like vintage clothes and I learned how to sew so I could make my own stuff or alter clothing that I found. And that’s when I decided that that’s who I wanted to be and that’s how I wanted to look I never had a moment Mohawk, um, but it’s always been, you know, again, mix of high design street style. You know, I definitely have like gothic influences. And so I think it started then I’ve actually never really thought about, like when that journey started, cuz I know when my love of high fashion started that was in the third grade. And it was definitely when that guy rode by on his dirt bike with a mohawk that I was like, that’s, that’s my that’s my thing. That’s what I want.

Alyssa Patmos 5:28
Third grade was a pivotal year for me too, because I remember growing up, people would ask me, like, what do you want to be? And I was like, I don’t know, I just want high heels. And to carry it like, in my mind, I had like black heels, like carrying a portfolio and just like, being able to walk fast places like the feeling like that. And-

Erika Lyremark 5:50
I love that.

Alyssa Patmos 5:53
So –

Erika Lyremark 5:54
Yeah, I was – go ahead.

Alyssa Patmos 5:55
No, no, go ahead. It’s all good.

Erika Lyremark 5:57
Oh, I was gonna say I always in my head, I was, you know, penthouse, I was always single, I always had a fabulous, famous boyfriend. And I was like, in the fashion industry, bossing people around being in charge, and just living a very glamorous life. And a lot of that has come true. Yeah, mine is a single part of all my husband is fabulous. But I have a very independent relationship. So but it works really well for us. And I wanted somewhere where I could be myself. But I could also be, you know, extremely independent. We’ve been married for 16 years, we, we still don’t combine our income. So I pay for things, he pays for things. And when we don’t have to have a system that’s worked out, but it’s definitely my money and your money. And it’s great, because I don’t I don’t ever want to ask someone permission if I can buy something.

Alyssa Patmos 6:54
Right. So I think I mean, this is making mention of all we talk about all the things. So if you’re willing to share in regard in regards to that, how did that decision process like, you know, when you’re first getting together, you’re you’re getting married, trying to decide if you’re going to combine finances or not, I don’t think this isn’t one of the things I love. When we talk about decision. And I love discernment in there because that word like leads to better decisions. For me. It requires intentionality. And I think a lot of times, you know, we see people just doing something so unconsciously or because that’s the way it’s always been done. So like, a lot of people think, you know, yeah, you get married you you combine finances. So how did that decision process look for you?

Erika Lyremark 7:43
Um, I don’t remember exactly what happened. But you know, we lived together for a couple years before we got engaged. And so it was just never a thing where, you know, we were, we were dating, we didn’t combine our money. It was just never a thing. And once we got married, um, you know, I had a strong business background. And I believe every partnership starts with paperwork. And so it was, we marry me. And then it was like, let’s talk about the prenup. And it was just, it was never even discussed as an option, like, oh, we should combine our money, like neither of us wanted that. So he’s just as independent as I am. So I think that’s probably why it works so well.

Alyssa Patmos 8:29
I love it. So on this journey of decision making, obviously, we come to different points where where it can be harder to make a decision. And so I know at one point, you had make the decision of if you were going to work with your dad or not. And I have I have a similar story of like, okay, I got a My, I still say my dad is one of the clients, one of the hardest clients I’ve ever had to earn. And so, so what what was it like at that point? Or what did you learn from making that decision?

Erika Lyremark 9:08
It was awful. Let me just tell you, it was awful. Um, so I had I quit stripping in August of 2001. And the.com bubble had already burst, you know, living in Seattle. And so businesses were already you know, things were already not as good as they could have been. And then 911 happened. And it was a very scary time for everyone across America and everything, just if you remember that everything just like froze, and all these companies were on hiring freezes. And I was going to I wanted to get back into the design field. So I have an apparel design degree and then I went on and I thought I was going to become a women’s rights lawyer. And so I got a Women’s Studies degree and then I was like, Oh no, I want to do do business and I want to live in Hong Kong. And so I got an unofficial minor in China studies and I would say that’s an area that I haven’t been decisive in my career. That’s been the definitely the biggest challenge for me ever is career for sure. Um, and so I, you know, I didn’t have a lot of I didn’t really have a resume, like I was a really good student. Um, you know, I knew how to hustle and how to be, I was very self motivated, but I didn’t have like your traditional resume or, you know, have this great, you know, these great sources and references and I didn’t have like a lot of volunteer work like I just didn’t do that stuff, you know, as either chain smoking in a strip club or, you know, with my glasses on with my, my, my whatever my face in a book. And I didn’t know what I was gonna do, because all these companies that I wanted to work for Nordstrom What’s that brand name, I can’t think of the name of it. But they were very popular in the 80s, not not Ferragamo. So Sergio Valenti, I don’t know if you know them at all, but they had these really cool jeans and they were making a comeback. And I had like 10 pairs of these Sergio Valente jeans. And they were kind of like mid mid waist. And then I love flares. And they were flares. And they just like these super cool pockets. And they had a location in Seattle, and I definitely wanted to work there. But again, I really hadn’t been in the fashion industry for like four years, because I had been getting my Women’s Studies degree. And I just was kind of all over the place and was really indecisive about what I wanted to do. So I was, you know, I was in a really bad place I had sold, almost everything I owned, you know, this is back in the day, and the 2000 were books and CDs, were still a valuable commodity, you could go to a bookstore and be like, hey, buy my books, and you could sell CDs. And so I sold almost all of those things and clothes and furniture. And I was down to my last $200 and, you know, not stripping and this church had actually, long story short, this church was actually helping me out giving me money, they were paying my rent, and I was like, I can’t keep accepting money from them. This is just like, this is totally unacceptable like this. This should not be happening to me, but it was. And so earlier that summer, when I did have some money, I had gone I purchased a plane ticket back to Minneapolis where I’m from and so I got on the plane, I thought, well, at least I’ll be able to eat for free there. My parents won’t let me starve. So I was eating split pea soup with my dad. And he said to me, you know, do you want to, you know, what do you think about moving back to Minneapolis and rehabbing this building with me. And I was like, this is the last thing that I want to be doing. I’m living in Minneapolis, I moved out of my parents, my mom’s home when I was still in high school. And I was like, I will never live there. And I will never work for my father because he also had a commercial roofing company. And here I was, and I’m like, it felt like was my only option. So I was like, Okay, well, I’m really committed to not stripping ever again, because I’m just wasting my potential. And I had started to drink, you know, horrific amounts of alcohol on a nightly basis. My motto was, if I can see straight, I haven’t had enough to drink. And I was like, I have to do something because I’m about ready to become a drug addicts. I don’t know how else to escape this pain. So I was like, Okay, I’ll do it. And he said, You have to commit for a year. And I was like, all right. And I’m like, but in my head, I’m thinking I’m on a year after year, I’m gonna move to New York or LA. And so within, you know, three weeks, I had packed up all my stuff and left my home and my city that I known for 11 years, it was a very quick decision is almost, you know, instant. And within three weeks, my life is completely different. And that’s how that decision came about. It was not easy. It was not glamorous, it was not what I wanted to do. But I was so committed to never stripping again. And I was also concerned about staying in Seattle, because I knew how tempting it would be to go back to The Club. And it’s like, just, you know, I knew how to work the crowd and you don’t even it’s like I need the money I can make it and I’m like, I don’t want to do this anymore. Because it’s it’s it’s suffocating me

Alyssa Patmos 14:20
The relationshipo to commitment when we’re making decisions… it’s so it’s so interesting and fascinating to me because there are some decisions that are so that had been so crystal clear and easy for me to make. Like what I remember I decided I wanted to attach to and then two weeks later, I have my first tattoo and it’s like huge on my arm. And and for me that decision was almost instantaneous. And then And then other ones. There’s this piece of commitment in here and I think some people say that they know what they want, but I don’t actually think a lot of people intentionally spend enough time truly cultivating their wants and to a way that they can articulate it that then makes decision easier. Do you experience the same thing?

Erika Lyremark 15:15
I completely agree. And I think that’s why most people don’t get what they want, even though they’re doing all the affirmations and mantras, and the visioning and, and, but they’re not, they don’t really, it’s just, it’s vague, and it’s fluffy. And I absolutely believe in miracles. And I believe in magic. And I believe all sorts of cool stuff can can come your way. But I also believe in the power of personal choice and personal responsibility and taking action to create the world that you want to live in for yourself. And most people don’t get what they want, because they’re not clear on what they want. Or if they’re, they’re like, Yeah, I kind of like that. But I don’t want to be the person that would go, it would require me to be that, does that make some sense?

Alyssa Patmos 16:00
Oh, yeah. No, that totally makes sense. Because after you told the story about your dad, the other piece that I wanted to tap into is, is, you know, you and I have worked together for a year, I’ve been a student of yours in different capacities. And, and we talk about identity a lot. And so it seems like you know, in the drop of a hat, all of a sudden, your identity shifts, and it’s like, okay, I’m no longer a stripper. And I’m committed to that. And now, but now you have this new, this new thing, and at first, like that must have seemed somewhat uncertain. And I think people get hung up, clinging so tightly to identities that we have sad in the past that we limit the possibility of being able to see that. I mean, tomorrow we could we could change our identity if if we really wanted to.

Erika Lyremark 16:58
Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, one of the things that did work in my favor is that when I quit stripping, and I went into building this commercial real estate company, the thing that worked in my favor is that I was in charge. And so I’m very comfortable being in charge, like I’m uncomfortable. And I actually do a worse job if I’m not in charge, because I’m not really clear what’s expected of me. Or you know, how to do my thing, or like my, my idea is don’t expand and look for better ways. Because I’m not, I don’t look for better ways to do something, because I’m not in charge. And so that worked for me, but it was difficult for me, because there wasn’t that sense of glamour and intrigue and in what I was doing. And so that part was definitely missing for me. So I think it’s about identity. So one of the things that I’ve taken away is, do I still get to be the person that I love to be, even if like the exterior circumstances are exactly the same, like being in charge is super, super important to me, like, I’d rather be in charge and work in a less than ideal environment, then be super glamorous, and not be in charge of my own day and the way that I do my work. Like, that’s a bigger value for me. So I think it’s really weighing what are your most important values, and really sticking with that?

Alyssa Patmos 18:25
Yeah, in the end, one of the other things we talk about a lot is being able to ask for what you want. And so I think, like, until we’re clear on what we want, we can’t ask for it. But that’s something that that you’ve done so well. I mean, I think the I don’t think it doesn’t sound like you had to like you necessarily asked for it with your dad, but you took it but I know, there have been so many other scenarios or stories that you’ve told me where it’s like, no, like, our power lies in our ability, the ability to to ask for what we want. And I think our ability to be decisive, is directly correlated with our ability to then be able to, to ask for help. And I think our level of commitment is thrown somewhere in there, too. So speaking about identity, you know, there there becomes all these decision points, and in our lives, where we have this option to choose if we’re going to step into a new version of ourselves. And so there’s there seems to be this direct correlation to, to our, our commitment levels, our ability to be decisive and being able to to ask for what we want as a result of those things. So how how do you see these interplaying together?

Erika Lyremark 19:49
Well, I think you need to, you know, I always look at again, like who’s the person I want to be? And then what kind of exterior circumstances is gonna support me in that. And then bringing it down to you know, the rest is really experimentation to like, let’s, you know, talk about with marketing, right? And so there’s all different ways that you can position yourself with your marketing. But really asking yourself, Does this marketing align with how I want to move to the world and how I want to be perceived and moving through the world? And is that a direct expression of the the most authentic version of myself with that, if that makes sense?

Alyssa Patmos 20:40
It does make sense. And I like that you like, when you say, exterior circumstances, it just makes me think of our environments. And people so often forget how important our environment is in our ability to be who we want to be. And so I know for you, like a huge thing is you identify as a minimalist in business, and your house reflects that, right?

Erika Lyremark 21:09
Yes, yes, absolutely. So as little as possible.

Alyssa Patmos 21:14
So for you minimalism then became this became this way of being and then it, it’s reinforcing the decision in every area of your life, I would imagine, right?

Erika Lyremark 21:28
Well, one of the reason I chose the minimalist path is just a quick story. It started in 1995. And I was watching an episode of The now disgraced Charlie Rose. And he had a CEO of some major company on there, unfortunately, I don’t remember who the guest was. This is like pre internet, basically. But the guest was talking about how in Western philosophy, the philosophy is that we are born an empty box, and we need to fill it with who we are. And in eastern philosophy, we are born a full box, and we need to empty it to become more of who we are. And I looked around my apartment and I thought, Oh, my God, I’ve no idea who I am. I mean, it was just, I was a maximalist that I was like, the ultimate maximalist, I mean, I would, I had a calendar of what I wore on every day of the year, and my goal was always to not repeat an outfit more than once a year. And because of my ability to sew and alter clothes and make things like it was part of my craft, it was like, part of it was a part of who I am. Um, and I decided, I am ready for new adventure in my life. And this has got to go. And so it started with cleaning out my physical clutter. And it really is a practice because I love to shop. Like, you know, I’m the least likely candidate to be a minimalist, because I love shopping. I mean, I look at shopping sites almost every single day, you know, my husband walked by, like, what are you doing? I’m working, he’s like a nother partay is not working. I’m like, No, I’m doing research on their brandy. Like, whatever. So, um, but the thing that’s helped me the most is this. In recent years, I came up with this thought viewpoint and it was, if I fully utilize everything I own, then I always feel like I have enough. And part of the reason I became a maximalist is because there was a period in my life where I didn’t feel like I had enough clothes. And so I would pretend to be sick. So I wouldn’t have to go to school because I didn’t want to wear the same outfit. And so, you know, I had a very long, I was like, I was sick a lot, you know, quote, unquote, sick a lot. But the truth is, like, I just don’t want to go to school because I didn’t, I didn’t feel like I have enough clothes store. So that really-

Alyssa Patmos 23:48
Can you repeat that mantra again?

Erika Lyremark 23:51
Yes, yeah.

Alyssa Patmos 23:51
Can you repeat what it is? It was so powerful.

Erika Lyremark 23:54
When I fully utilize everything I already have. I always feel like I have enough. So, go ahead.

Alyssa Patmos 24:04
I just want to add in there, there’s, for me, that journey was around sweets, like it’s a running joke that I’m addicted to. Now, it’s hazel nut butter cups, but it used to be peanut butter cups. And so for me, I had to switch it to like my life is already sweet enough because when I felt like it didn’t have when I felt like my life wasn’t sweet enough, then I would go to sweets more often. And so now like I don’t eat sugar at all, and and that there were just some parallels for me there that seemed and it just reinforced pieces of my story from that too. So –

Erika Lyremark 24:38
I love that. I love that like finding that thing that’s missing for you. And for me, it was about feeling fulfilled. Like I want to feel full inside. Um, and you know, the truth is like when we think of decisiveness, the truth is like if no one’s looking, I’m wearing the same Lululemon leggings. I’m wearing the same white slides I’m wearing one of like three oversized cropped hooded sweatshirts or sweaters. And that’s my uniform. And then I do have a lot of handbags. I’m not a minimalist with handbags or puffy coats, but everything else like I literally can own the same pair of Lululemon leggings and I’m like, I will wear them for like a week straight. Like I don’t, I don’t care. Um, so that really, that’s really helped me a lot. It’s helped curb my shopping addiction. And it is a fun challenge. How do I, you know, again, it’s like, picking out furniture, it’s like, okay, like the couch behind me, that was like a two year process to find that couch. And I want to marry my couch. I love it so much. And you know, it’s a it’s modular, so you can break it up. So, you know, when we move to our next place, we can position it in different styles, we can order more pieces. So it’s like I’m in it for the long haul with that baby. And so it just causes me to be more intentional because I hate spending money on something that I don’t utilize it bums me out. So I only want like, things that I’m totally obsessed with. And things that I’m going to really really use.

Alyssa Patmos 26:17
Well, and clutter can be so distracting clutter can, you know, obviously if I if our closet is cluttered, or even if our computer is cluttered, when I look at my downloads folder, sometimes I get serious anxiety and clutter, I think can subconsciously lead to decision fatigue, where we’re not even able to make the more powerful decisions because we’re spending way too much freaking time on all these micro decisions just from having things cluttered.

Erika Lyremark 26:50
Yeah, absolutely this, you know, this translate into into one’s business and ideas. I’m definitely someone who has had idea clutter. I remember I partnered with this a woman Her name is Betty Jean Bal. And she helped me launch my first big course back in 2010. And she said to me, if you throw one more idea at me, I’m out like, we’re done. I was like, Yes, ma’am. And she goes, You need to get an idea box. And I said, What’s that she’s like, it’s a physical box that you put all your ideas at. And so I would write down my ideas on a piece of paper. And you know, they would go in the idea box because I am hyper creative. Like I’m, I can’t stop it concept and think of everywhere I go, I think something could be stronger, faster, better, more efficient, more beautiful, more practical, just better design, like I just can’t stop, it’s my gift. But that can move into overkill. And so with the idea box that helped curb some of those things, and then now 10 years full time into my business, I’ve way less idea clutter. And I mean, you’ve known me for a few years, you’ve seen me go through some changes, and I’m about to go through another big change as well in my business. And, but it’s all part of, you know, editing down and, and getting rid of the clutter. Because you know, the mantra, another module that simplicity sets you free. And it’s the it’s one of the hardest things to achieve, to be so simple and to be so satisfied with, with what you have,

Alyssa Patmos 28:19
It’s like the opposite of of what they’re the proverbial they, you know, are marketing to us all the time you go into most stores. And then as you’re checking out, theoretically, you have everything you need already. But then like, here’s 50 candy bars, and here’s this other product, and oh, do you need a gift card and we’re just like, bombarded by all and on social or bombarded with other people’s ideas constantly. So it takes it takes a bunch of intention to be able to curate an existence that that is simple. So do you have tips on that?

Erika Lyremark 28:59
Um, I would say, only go to stores that you really love to go to, you know, um, I hardly ever go to Target anymore. Like that’s definitely a place. I’m from Minneapolis. Oh, that’s the capital of target. But I don’t go to Target very much anymore. And I spend my time going to other places because that’s definitely one of those places where I’m like, Oh, look at this, look at this, look at this, look at this. And so I really try to and also you know, researching brands like I’m very clear on like, I have a haircare routine that I love and products that I love so I’m not tempted by by other things and I really research brands, you know, I research what I spend my money on and who they are and so just being intentional with how you spend your money is also a great way to help you to help yourself with that.

Alyssa Patmos 29:51
I think sometimes we get when when we avoid wanting to deal with emotions or when we avoid wanting to, you know, sit in discomfort, like the condition of being human is we go through periods of suffering. And so when we don’t want to sit in that that’s like when we can start to spin. That’s where like, I can always tell the state of my mind based on if my desk is organized or not. And, and if it gets too cluttered, like if my desk is cluttered, I’m like, my mind is too cluttered, like, what do I need to clear out? And so I love what you’re saying about the, the relationship between simplicity and satisfaction, and I almost feel like it’s a radical act in today’s world to be satisfied with your life.

Erika Lyremark 30:45
Yeah, I think so too. And again, it’s not I’m definitely not anti consumerism, and I’m definitely not anti shopping. But it’s really getting intentional about, you know, this concept of better less, it’s like, save up for the handbag that you want save up for the shoes that you want. Even if you have less, you’re going to really really enjoy it, you know, a pair of Lululemon leggings are like $110. But if you wear them every day, like I do, like it’s, you need two pairs for the whole year, and you’re set like they don’t wear out. So, um, you know, spend your money invested on products and services and companies that you really, really love and adore, and respect.

Alyssa Patmos 31:31
I think this is a perfect segue into one of your specialties and something that I know you’re fascinated with, which is assessing, you know, the types of brands that people fall in love with. And one of the things that you talk about is how brands have an opportunity to own their viewpoints. And so, as I hear you talking about this shopping experience in this intentional curation of your life and the materials that you have the things you own, then really the companies who are selling to us they have a chance to tap into that value. So So what what’s been the journey getting to this like bold stance you take on people having strong, sharp viewpoints?

Erika Lyremark 32:22
Well, I started digging deep into my work on viewpoints 10 years ago, because I was you know, moving full time into this business. And I was definitely struggling selling something intangible where I sold something like lap dance is very easy to sell. I mean, it took work, but people are like, what’s a lap dance? Why do I need one, I’m selling commercial real estate and people, you obviously either needed a 5000 square foot space or you did it. So it was very difficult for me to sell something that was tangible. And you know, there’s a few things that helped me succeed in my business from the get go in one of those is developing my viewpoints. And I, you know, before I started my coaching, consultancy, which really started in like 2005 2006, I had taken some sales courses on how to sell, you know what I’m doing, I’d worked with some sales coaches, and it was so sleazy, and so slimy, and I’m like, I’m not that person. And I’m never going to be that person. And this feels like the time that I went to New Orleans, and I got stuck in a timeshare presentation, and I was insulted and more horrified, and it was awful. And I’m like, I can’t be that person. And you know, that kind of selling very transactional, like not caring about your customers not caring if this is actually a really good fit for them. You know, that doesn’t work in the world of commercial real estate. When uh, when our tenants would move in, move in, you know, they would basically become our roommates. And you don’t want someone that feel like they’re forced to move in with you. It’s a horrible relationship. And so I wanted to, you know, create a long term vision for our company, and not accept everybody who wanted to rent they’re like, is their business a good fit for the type of building that it is? Are they going to be a good fit without with the neighbors, and I just couldn’t see myself selling this way. So I came up with these viewpoints on how I want to sell and I call it transformational selling. And it should be every sales experience that you have, you should feel good about and excited about it. Like when I shop at Nordstrom, I’m never worried that I’m going to be pressured into buying something. They’re never you know, tackling me the front of the store telling me what like what’s on sale and what’s the latest trends are in blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I shop with complete confidence knowing that if I don’t like what I’ve purchased if I changed my mind, now I have 45 days to return it knowing full well I’m going to be back shopping at Nordstrom, you know, probably the next week we buying something. And so that really, that really changed my work. And when I saw what it did for my own business, and I saw how much women entrepreneurs and I just say women, because that’s, that’s my, that’s my client base is female founded brands is I saw how much that my viewpoints on selling, how much they like those viewpoints. And I thought, I’ve got to have a course on selling. And so I created a course on selling and I had hundreds of women go through it and they love selling the way that I taught them to sell. And that really developing viewpoints has been definitely my number one go to and, you know, the thing we talked about was like people don’t get what they want, because they don’t really know what they want, they have this vague fluffy idea. But just like, you know, it’s like, it’s almost like you need to market your idea to the universe. And just like if you’re marketing, something that’s vague and fluffy, and people know what it is, it won’t succeed. And the same thing with the universe, if you are marketing, something if you’re like, I don’t know what I want bla bla bla bla bla. But if you get very, very specific, you become a lot more creative, you become a lot more bold. And you realize if you just push yourself just a little bit more, you’ll be able to get that thing that you want, but you have to be very specific about it. So the work on viewpoints, it helped me and then I saw how much my customers needed to develop their own viewpoints, because they were good at what they what they did, or they do. But they hadn’t. They hadn’t really fleshed it out, like, what’s their angle, so they were more generalist. And I’m always working to get my clients to that place of specialization. When you specialize, you can go deep into a topic that you’re obsessed with. And you can expand and expand and expand and expand and just get better and better, better that versus kind of like all these general things that you may or may not be that great at.

Alyssa Patmos 37:01
Yeah, and I think one of the things that I’ve noticed, even in being able to express my viewpoints which like I get to do on the show, which is which is fun. But that was a journey getting to this point, because there’s a that there’s the recognition of like, okay, like what is my viewpoint, but for so many of us we’ve been conditioned out of thinking our opinions are okay, or or like they’re worthy of being heard. And so there’s this safety component where it had to become safe in my body to feel like I could share those, those viewpoints. Have you always been as bold as you are?

Erika Lyremark 37:47
Yes. I was born bold.

Alyssa Patmos 37:52
I love it. So I think one of the magical things about about the work that you do is is it’s not just about like spewing one out there. It’s about crafting a viewpoint and and truly putting thought in into what what do you think, and we talk about it largely in a business context, especially since that’s what you do. But I think it’s massively important for life. For life in general, if you go around again, not knowing who you are not knowing what your your viewpoints are, then that’s how we end up feeling invisible. That’s how we end up just like, here. I’m blending in with the wallpaper.

Erika Lyremark 38:38
Yeah, and it’s, um, again, the viewpoints it’s, it’s so I’ve always been bold, but I’ve had to train myself to be editorial and decisive. So, it and that’s ongoing again, because I have so many ideas. I constantly have to ask myself, what’s my viewpoint on this. So even my relationship with my husband, um, we had already been dating for a while, but we were not. We were like, dating, not dating mostly mostly friends with benefits. And when I was decided, I’m like, Okay, I’m ready for a serious relationship. And I want someone who is committed to the relationship because I had been in all sorts of relationships where it was either kind of like an open, open style relationship, or they weren’t committed to spending time with me. It’s kind of like less than a plate. And I also wanted a relationship where I could be fulfilled like, I could be my wild, crazy self and not feel like I had to hide who I am. Those were the things of the most important to me, and obviously, chemistry needs to be there. You know, they have to be a decent person, but I feel like that’s just like DHA. You know what I mean? Like, you don’t like I’m purposely looking to date an asshole who treats me like crap. So, like those things happen to be there and why I was like, these are the things that I’m committed to, I realized, oh my god, I already know this guy. I know this person, he gives me all of these things. And so then I shifted into, I’m really committed to this person. And, and so that shifted. And again, what once we commit, we will see, there’s a good chance that you already have everything you need to get started on that thing. So like, that’s one example. And it even goes to I don’t know, I’m just thinking about like, like, people come over, and they make fun of my refrigerator, because there’s hardly ever anything in it. And so I’ve decided, well, you know, what, if there’s nothing in it, at least I’m going to arrange it beautifully. Yes. So I’m constantly in the refrigerator like organizing the can the Perrier starving period cans, and, you know, making sure that my containers, my food storage containers are the most beautiful ones in the market. And it’s beautiful. And it’s clean. And like, yeah, the, the free, free, just there’s not a lot in there. But it’s beautiful. And so now I viewpoints on I want all of my cupboards, closets drawers to be beautiful. I want to open it up and be like, Wow, this chick, she’s got it going on, she is organized, and she knows what she wants. So viewpoints go the full gamut from home organization to nail polish, right? So I like. So I wear I just discovered these plastic press on nails. So I wear these all the time. They’re like $6 a package they last about a week, sometimes more, sometimes less. And then I go and get my toes done with a like the gel slack. And because I can’t always get like the color of the nails to the same as the toes, I just stick with my favorite colors which are red, black, dark, purple, white, and nude. So there’s only five color choices. And then it’s easy. Another viewpoint like I don’t need to go the full rainbow. Even though I love all nails and all colors because I love manicures and things like that. I don’t need to do that. It’s one of my viewpoints like here’s the rotation. These are the only choices of colors you get.

Alyssa Patmos 42:29
Something that’s coming up for me, as you’re talking is this is how you talk about viewpoints where it’s communicating something about you that people can then you know, either decide that they like decide that they don’t. And and I think that that’s a really important distinction. Because in the world that we live in, it’s so divisive. And people are really quick to have an opinion. And I think there’s a big difference between you know, just the way we traditionally think about opinion, versus what you’re saying with truly cultivating a viewpoint. And so is this something that you’ve thought about it as well the difference between viewpoints and opinions?

Erika Lyremark 43:14
Yeah, I see that viewpoints are based on your experience and your expertise. And they, again, depending on the context, but they solve a problem either for you or for someone else, like your customer base. Um, so like, there’s a lot of things with politics and things like that, and I don’t know everything about everything. So if we take out, you know, just one, you know, one issue, right, that everybody debates about, you know, I’m not, I’m probably not an expert in that area, so I’ll just have like, my general opinion. And then I’m open to other you know, I’m always open to hearing what other people have to say, but it’s, it’s different than an opinion. This is like an opinion is like, Oh, this dress or that dress, you know, should I wear my hair like this or like that. Um, but if you put is something that you’re you’re willing to get behind and you’re willing to fight for. So it’s, it’s, it’s different than an opinion. I mean, it could be the same with the way that I talked about viewpoints. It’s definitely more expansive. It’s something that you’re building your life’s work on.

Alyssa Patmos 44:18
Yeah, you playing seems me then as this opportunity to again, like communicate something about who you are. But then it’s also I talked about claiming your experience, like I’m always trying to get people to claim their experience because we when we don’t, we don’t share our stories, then again, we end up being more more invisible. And so for me, the way that you talk about viewpoints always seems like this way for someone to claim their experience and rather than it just being sort of like oh, I flippantly have an opinion about this, but like, you know, there’s always another side I can always get more information leads to debate, like a viewpoint is is such like a, it becomes such a personal thing. That it’s not really up for debate. It’s like, No, this this me this is my viewpoint and like, this is my personal truth. And I think when people get so aligned in communicating from their personal truth, they’re more emotionally clear in any conversation. And so then going back to knowing what you want, and getting what you want, then you’re it’s way easier to ask for what you want. And I just I like, I love that you do this work, because I just want to drill this in, I just want to drill it in so much, because otherwise, we’re just flat. We’re just like floating around in indecision constantly. And then we’re just taking in everyone else’s version of success, and not defining what actually is going to feel good to us. And then we’re just waiting for that to happen. Instead of being able to recognize exactly like you said, with the list with your husband, wait, this is in front of me.

Erika Lyremark 46:10
That was so much easier when you know how to think it makes it so much easier. And it’s not about it’s not about being rigid. It’s about this is best for me because it makes my life and my business simple. And it makes me the best at what I do.

Alyssa Patmos 46:30
So how in general, can you can you expand on that step? How does someone whether it’s in their business or in their life, how does working to cultivate viewpoints, simplify things.

Erika Lyremark 46:45
So again, we’ll go back to it don’t know, let’s say how you grocery shop. Okay. And so some people, like I have viewpoints I want to get in viewpoints could also be part of your value system. So for me, when I’m grocery shopping, I, I buy organic, as much as possible. I buy grass fed beef, as much as possible, I buy, you know, free range chicken, I’m like, you know, like, if you shop at Whole Foods, they have the rating of the animal animal welfare, so I’m always looking to spend on how, how was the animal treated, I’m not vegan or vegetarian, but I’m always looking to spend the extra money for animal welfare. And so other people don’t. Animal Welfare is not important to them. And so they’re not. They’re not thinking about that. And again, I realized, like, I’m very fortunate that I in an income bracket where I can afford, you know, those things. But it could be it could be something else for For someone it’s like, that’s just where I you know, I can only create viewpoints from where I am in my life. So that would be an example right there. And it just makes my decision making easier, like I’m not looking at I’m like, you know, where’s the grass fed, like, that is the kind of meat that I purchase.

Alyssa Patmos 48:09
Right. And I, the thing I love about the examples that you just gave is I think we all we have viewpoints, but sometimes when you I’ve seen you challenge people to come up with theirs, and it’s like and it’s this freeze moment where it’s like, Wait, I don’t know what my viewpoints are, but when you give examples like that we have them all around us but it’s a matter of like bringing them to conscious awareness so that they start helping us in our decision making process. And and it’s that commitment level like when we decide to commit to that viewpoint, then everything becomes simpler, similar to you i So Gemini just bought a quarter of a cow because it’s because I want grass fed grass finished beef as well especially like different things with estrogen in my body like it’s it’s really important to me and so I wanted I wanted to not just be able to go and cherry pick the cut of meat as well. So we decided to buy from a local rancher in Colorado a quarter of a cow I’m gonna have like 96 pounds of meat freezer. But that that is an example of a viewpoint like even when I’m grocery shopping like I don’t go really down the middle aisles I stay on the perimeter and like I have a viewpoint around like okay I shop I shop the perimeter of the store. I have you know so many viewpoints on communication and and healthy relationships and you know, the types of things I want to put in my body and I think that the power lies in being a critic no somewhere like writing them down getting in touch with what our viewpoints actually are because then that process says like it’s you, it really became clear to me through this call, like the process of getting to that decision easier through the commitment to your viewpoint. And in a world of so much uncertainty like that, the commitment piece to me is gold.

Erika Lyremark 50:20
Yes, and then it’s easy to align yourself with, you know, friends, romantic relationships, business partnerships, on what someone else’s viewpoint like, do we? Do we have the same viewpoints on work ethic? Etc? Like, what is your work ethic? What are your viewpoints around this? How do you what do you feel about this? And it gives you a commonality and it gives you a place to ground yourself and make that connection.

Alyssa Patmos 50:56
So if someone is is thinking about this, they’re listening to it. And we have somehow roundabout convinced them, you know, like, simplicity is the ultimate sexiness. And that when we can put systems and viewpoints into place, decision making gets easier. What are some of the ways or do you have any questions that help bring out where people’s viewpoints already lie?

Erika Lyremark 51:28
So anytime that you so let’s, let’s take let’s take personal life first. And then let’s talk about business and career. So personal life would be anytime that you need to make a decision. Or even if you’re thinking about what do I really want from my life, develop a viewpoint on that. And so like I have an a viewpoint on, I don’t like taking care of things like I am not very domestic. And I don’t want to spend my weekends. Mowing a yard, Chad and I used to own a house, we don’t own a house anymore, it’s so much better for our relationship. If we buy a house, again, it’s gonna have a very tiny, tiny yard, hopefully just a courtyard. And so it’s that kind of thing of what is my viewpoint on this, what’s going to be best for me and having an honest conversation with yourself around. You know, this is what I really value. And this is like looking at the, I guess it’s like the consequences, good of bad of, of having all of these things, or the things that you really want or the things that you want to attract into your life. You know, like I watch, you know, I follow all the Kardashians on Instagram, and whenever they do an unboxing of something, I’m like, Oh, my God, aren’t they so overwhelmed with all of this stuff? Like, I would lose my mind. I mean, they must get like, boxes, they must get like a truckload of swag every single day, sent to them, like I would, I would lose my mind, I’d be like, I can’t make a decision on that. Just I would just like give it all away, you know? Um, and so really picturing yourself in that if you make that decision? Is that really who you are, or like, again, I’m a huge fan of using your imagination. But really use your imagination to cultivate what is a true representation of you versus a fantasy version of you. You know, fantasy version of Erica is never stressed out. She’s never tired. You know, she never gave way she never has to workout, right? She can eat whatever she wants, and will sleep through the night who she is like, you know, giant meal at midnight, and she just goes right to sleep. That’s fantasy. Erica reality, Erica has to work out. She watches what she eats. She can’t eat like three hours before bed or she won’t sleep. So getting really clear around that. And then for business. You know, my favorite question, and I’ll leave you with this is why do you want to normalize? Because so many people, especially with service based businesses, and that is a huge, huge piece of my customer base is people with service based businesses. Because they solve multiple problems. And so like, it’s actually a question that I very rarely asked my customers like, what’s the problem that you’re at this, this thing solves, but I asked them, What do you want to normalize? And it gets their brain firing in completely different ways. And so that is definitely one of my questions on what do you want to normalize?

Alyssa Patmos 54:35
You’ve asked me that question. And my answer always slightly changes. But you know it, the variation that it’s gotten to now is normalizing people talking about their fears, talking about the things that seem uncomfortable, or the things that bubble under the surface because going back to viewpoints if we if we don’t take the time to cultivate it now and we lie to ourselves, like so many people lie to themselves in relationships, I’ve done it in the past numerous times, and but then it’s gonna press, it’s gonna come out and wreak havoc in our lives in some way. So I also view cultivating viewpoints as this chance to get radically honest with radically honest with yourself about who you are, so that when opportunities present themselves, you’re you’re not questioning who you are, you’ve taken the time to know it. And then you get to compare it does does this line up. And that seems like what you did with your husband, and I had made a list right before I made Jeff as well. And Jeff had a list and then he fell out of the sky in the park. So I was on this list. His list is a spreadsheet, because he’s so analytical, I think a bullet mine’s a bulleted lists of minds to two points, is like 10. And they’re weighted, and it’s in a spreadsheet. And it’s not how my brain works, but It cracks me up. Well, it was one of the things on there. Sure, able to express their needs, because he been hurt in the past by by people not being willing to express what they needed. And again, going back to lying to ourselves about who we are and what we want. You know, sometimes we want to not be alone. And that takes precedence over who we truly are and what we truly want out of life. And I think the work that, that you do, and and helping people cultivate Viewpoints is so important, obviously, in the context of business, which I know is how you love to share it, and also in the context of our personal lives.

Erika Lyremark 56:54
I love it. That’s awesome. Thank you for having me today.

Alyssa Patmos 56:58
Thank you for being here. I want to let you share if people want to connect with you. Because your everything you put out is always so fun. And you always have the best fashion advice or like the newest, like the latest product that’s out that is in the most glamorous packaging, like people need to follow you just for those things too. So what is your handle on all the places one more time

Erika Lyremark 57:22
So my online home is dailywhip.com and you can sign up for my newsletter where I share more about viewpoints and all things business. And then you can follow me on Instagram, it’s @dailywhip and then on TikTok I do these little audio notes. Um, and it’s just like a it’s like a little daily whipping. And those are just on TikTok – those are – you’ll see my portfolio on TikTok.

Alyssa Patmos 57:49
I love it and those I like daily with things for how to think which I love. It’s like a great midday reframe when you put them out. So thank you so much for being here and for chatting, all things. viewpoints.

Erika Lyremark 58:01
Yes, thank you for having me.

Alyssa Patmos 58:06
You’ve just finished listening to another episode of Make It Mentionable with me, your host, Alyssa Patmos. If you’re looking for more in between episodes, then sign up for The Peel. It’s my free newsletter that gives tips for how to navigate whatever life dishes and it’s also the place where I share the juiciest of stories. To check it out, head on over to Alyssapatmos.com/thepeel. Thank you so much for tuning in, and I’ll see you next time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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